The Jehovah's Witnesses returned once again last week, just as I was heading out the door. Two middle-aged women appeared at the gate in agreeably beige coats, bearing up against the last of the winter chill, and probably a few frosty receptions before they got to me. I wasn't much in the mood, but I had sort of looked forward to meeting them again and debating with them about various theological inconsistencies. Also, despite their wonky beliefs, they were genuinely pleasant people who thought they were making a positive impact in the world, so I gave them some of my time.
The usual openers of how there was so much evil in the world wasn't heading in a particularly interesting direction (I fail to see how such a committed theist can acknowledge a situation where evil - usually blamed on the devil - can exist and perpetuate with a supposed perfect, capable and loving god watching over us), so I steered things towards the subject of the creation, figuring these people were most likely creationists. I asked them what their opinion of ancient fossils were.
'We believe that the universe is only a few thousand years old', one said.
'God created us and everything on the planet', said the other.
I've pondered the ability of these statements to stand on their own feet for a while now. It asks questions about god's motives when the world is made to look much older than what it apparently is (suggesting a deceit) but also queries another aspect of an all powerful being: intelligence.
Many well-structured arguments against creation are stopped in their tracks by the twin put-downs of 'who are we to question gods ways' and 'we are human; we cannot comprehend his big plan'. When not using those little sidesteps, any reasoning along the lines of creation of the earth in seven days ultimately leads to god existing outside of time, and so can achieve anything. This got me thinking.
'How intelligent is God?', I asked.
The ladies stood there for a moment and pondered my question. I assured them I wasn't trying to lure them into a trap. Turning to one of the women I asked (as politely as possible) how intelligent she thought she was.
'Reasonably', she said, guardedly.
And so I began my argument. It went something like this:
Imagine for a moment, that you are really passionate about building model aeroplanes. You have loads of them in your house, and you take great care over the building and painting of each one, so they are as perfect as they can be. Now imagine that you are suddenly tasked with building 10,000 model aircraft. Each of the same design. No matter how much you loved doing it, you wouldn't want to do 10,000 and you would be sick of them if you made it to the end.
This is because you are an intelligent person; and repetitive tasks - no matter how much fun they might be at the start - become tiresome.
Now scale that up. Instead of one model aircraft, you have a million different kinds, of all shapes and sizes, made up of different parts and substances and complexities, and each model type has between 1 and a trillion models to be made. And you have to repeat the task for all eternity.
This is the work that God apparently has to do. Or rather, it's the work that he has apparently foisted upon himself, being the ultimate creator of our universe and all within it.
It was obvious by now the analogy I was trying to make, but as I suspected, the ladies would argue the wrong point away.
'But God exists outside of time', one said, 'he can create any number of beings in a blink of an eye'.
I countered; 'Well, even if we could somehow accept such a claim, it is God's intelligence that proves your creation theory false. I repeat: how intelligent do you think God is?'.
The women realised anything less than infinite intelligence would doom them to be pushed into a pit of hell or something, so I took their stares as an implicit answer.
A being of infinite, - or even merely super-human - intelligence is not going to lumber himself with such a repetitive system. Regardless of whether he can make time to do it or not, the constant repetition required would make him a prisoner of his own work.
'Don't think you are doing your God a disservice by claiming a system of creation so short-minded that he would trap himself in this way?', I asked to no audible reply.
A being of even reasonable intelligence, at the point where he was planning the universe he was about to create, would contemplate the consequences of any road he goes down. Rather than lumbering himself with the task of creating and re-creating life over and over for all eternity - and we are assuming the earth is the only place in the massive universe that this is happening - wouldn't it be far more practical to create a single spark of life, imbue it with the ability to mutate and reproduce, and then set it free in a quiet corner of the universe to do it's thing all on it's own, and watch as it grows and develops.
Though I do not go for the idea of a God as the ultimate source of all things, we know so little about the origins of the universe prior to the big bang, that a giant celestial experimenter kicking things off and then lying back and observing the results is as good as any we are going to get in the near future. And what a beautiful idea; one that fits with our knowledge of evolutionary history and biology, of fossil records and of the origins of the universe, of the destruction and rebirth of worlds and galaxies as they collide in the chaos, and the danger and savagery of animal survival.
But it also allows the ones who want to believe in a god to have one - the guy who had the forethought to put it all into action. Such a deity who was the creator of the universe and all the beauty deserves a bit of respect, and if as some posit, he is just lying back and observing the results - however they turn out - as a scientist would, then there is also no need to consider him to be the presiding judge of our actions because in his experiment we are all part of the results whatever they may be. Morality and behaviour - that is down to us.
The women had by this point begun to glance at their watches, and since I had made my point, I let them leave; they said they found what I had to say 'interesting', although it is unlikely they would be leaving the secure and comforting bosom of their alpha course just yet. Hopefully however, I may have sown a couple of seeds of doubt.
Some atheists may see this as a soft line, keeping God in the mix, but I don't see any profit to be had by trying to force people who don't want to let go of God to do so. The universe is so vast and we are so minuscule within it, that our tiny lives would be of no concern to a higher being; and so really, it makes no difference for our salvation whether we believe in one or not. What is important (as I have said in the past and would guess any caring god would agree), is that we are properly educated, and throw off those beliefs which are obviously, demonstrably wrong, beliefs that waste lives and sometimes cause harm when they are forcibly applied. If an argument that acknowledges the possibility of a remote God while steering them away from these standpoints can be persuasive enough to satisfy both what they see and want to believe, that's good enough for me.
Showing posts with label Evangelical. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Evangelical. Show all posts
Mad Christian Ads (Part 3)
Here are the final set of classic Evangelical Christian adverts. Part 1 is here, part 2 is here.
The PAX Network (now Ion Television) shows special programmes made just for Christians, as if they have special needs that normal programmes do not provide. Miracle Pets has the dubious claim of EVEN MORE 'cross species friendship' stories (as if to answer the calls of thousands of people who complained there weren't enough), Doc solves medical problems by saying 'ahh well he died, it must have been Gods will' to cover up his surgical incompetences, and Mysterious Ways attempts to outdo the X-Files by having some paranormal event occur every episode, but then spoiling the mystery for everyone by saying '..that strange flying saucer you saw? That was just Jesus doing some recon'.
Quite what a fire bible is, they don't say (their website has its own rather incendiary interpretation), but the rather ominous claim that it's a lesson they will never forget is enough to make me wary of sending my kids there. Do they set the classroom on fire and then the children that survive are told they did so because of Gods will? This banner also advertises lessons where inquisitive kids can pick up a human brain and what appears to be a child's shoe made from a turd. Finally, their use of 'objects' as teaching aids is sold to us as a reason not to go with a rival company, as if all other forms of teaching conjure things out of thin air. You would have thought that these people would employ that sort of tactic, given the tendency for religious types to do just that.
Only if you click on the banner would you ever know whether you are allowed to believe in both. Until then, risk eternal damnation if you even consider the wealth of evidence available to support their existence. The banner doesn't tell me much about which book it's going on about, but there's a crapload of them out there preaching both sides of the fence. Of course, if you do choose to believe, you will have to compromise with reality because due to the earth being only 4000 years old, man and dinosaur must have co-existed in a Flintstones stylee.
Saint A. Tujay is apparently the guy in charge of reviewing computer games for the Christian community. In order to remain down with the kids, he had picked up the street speak even back as far as 2002 and lets it all hang out for Saints of Virtue. #1 Christian Computer Game of All Time? To be fair, there's not going to be that many contenders for such a spot, except for Noah's Adventures and The Zoo Race, of course.
As for Tujays' glowing recommendation? Shine didn't have to look too far for it - its on their site's hall of fame - not an actual review.
On the last post, there was Clowning4Christ, well, it appears that no form of child-bothering physical showmanship is left un-christed. Mime4Him similarly allows your children to experience the wonder of annoying whited-up grossly thin men pretending they are trapped inside a box, but with a dusting of religious magic pixie-dust on top. It doesn't say whether the mime act includes the religious execution of hethens.
That's all, I'm afraid. I've enjoyed going back through these, and also enjoyed going back through the websites they refer to, I'm glad they are still going; if nothing else, they celebrate the wierd and wonderful world of religious people and their attempts to bend and stretch themselves around peculiar subject matters.
The PAX Network (now Ion Television) shows special programmes made just for Christians, as if they have special needs that normal programmes do not provide. Miracle Pets has the dubious claim of EVEN MORE 'cross species friendship' stories (as if to answer the calls of thousands of people who complained there weren't enough), Doc solves medical problems by saying 'ahh well he died, it must have been Gods will' to cover up his surgical incompetences, and Mysterious Ways attempts to outdo the X-Files by having some paranormal event occur every episode, but then spoiling the mystery for everyone by saying '..that strange flying saucer you saw? That was just Jesus doing some recon'.Quite what a fire bible is, they don't say (their website has its own rather incendiary interpretation), but the rather ominous claim that it's a lesson they will never forget is enough to make me wary of sending my kids there. Do they set the classroom on fire and then the children that survive are told they did so because of Gods will? This banner also advertises lessons where inquisitive kids can pick up a human brain and what appears to be a child's shoe made from a turd. Finally, their use of 'objects' as teaching aids is sold to us as a reason not to go with a rival company, as if all other forms of teaching conjure things out of thin air. You would have thought that these people would employ that sort of tactic, given the tendency for religious types to do just that.Only if you click on the banner would you ever know whether you are allowed to believe in both. Until then, risk eternal damnation if you even consider the wealth of evidence available to support their existence. The banner doesn't tell me much about which book it's going on about, but there's a crapload of them out there preaching both sides of the fence. Of course, if you do choose to believe, you will have to compromise with reality because due to the earth being only 4000 years old, man and dinosaur must have co-existed in a Flintstones stylee.Saint A. Tujay is apparently the guy in charge of reviewing computer games for the Christian community. In order to remain down with the kids, he had picked up the street speak even back as far as 2002 and lets it all hang out for Saints of Virtue. #1 Christian Computer Game of All Time? To be fair, there's not going to be that many contenders for such a spot, except for Noah's Adventures and The Zoo Race, of course.As for Tujays' glowing recommendation? Shine didn't have to look too far for it - its on their site's hall of fame - not an actual review.
On the last post, there was Clowning4Christ, well, it appears that no form of child-bothering physical showmanship is left un-christed. Mime4Him similarly allows your children to experience the wonder of annoying whited-up grossly thin men pretending they are trapped inside a box, but with a dusting of religious magic pixie-dust on top. It doesn't say whether the mime act includes the religious execution of hethens.That's all, I'm afraid. I've enjoyed going back through these, and also enjoyed going back through the websites they refer to, I'm glad they are still going; if nothing else, they celebrate the wierd and wonderful world of religious people and their attempts to bend and stretch themselves around peculiar subject matters.
Mad Christian Ads (Part 2)
This here is part 2 of a little series based on some old Christian adverts I pulled off some Evangelical website many years back. Part 1 is here.
One thing you have to hand to those kerayzee evangelicals - they know how to focus on the positives when advertising their religion product.
Bible Man, with his wee-coloured light sabre and a forehead designed to keep the rain off his feet, must save the world from the nasty heathens who happen to have a load of Anger Dust to spread all over the place. Not only is it implied that his arch nemesis is a Mexican, (an association of which might irk America's southern neighbours), but also a damned god-denier. (I assume this is how atheists are seen by these people, spreading hate and suffering in their silly cloak and helmet getups when not doing their day-to-day jobs).
'Ordered to worship monkeys' is clearly a slant against the Evolutionists, but otherwise you might think this is referring to the Bible. It's not until the final frame that you realise its actually a film. The Jesus Film - which despite having been seen by 1.5 Billion people I had not heard of before this - dates from 1979, post-dating the far more capable 'Jesus of Nazareth' by 2 years and thus coming off as a bit of a cash-in.
The ad gets extra points by implying people who showed it were committed as nutters, and also by talking down to the tribal bushmen of the world. At least the film eventually came along, otherwise who knows how many more generations of bushmen would have had to burn in hell (after the 1800 years or so where God decided not to reveal himself to them) if it hadn't.
Gotta wonder just what made them use a pair of nubile ladies kissing as the focus point for concerned parents. After all, they do seem to be enjoying themselves. Now obviously homosexuality is an unforgivable hell-burning sin for these people, but I reckon that was an interesting evening beside the computer searching for a source image..
Evangelical 1: 'Just type in 'Lesbians' and see what comes up.',
Evangelical 2: '..pfft.. 'comes up'..',
*nervous shifting in seats*
Evangelical 1: 'Holy Mary, there's a lot of results. Click on that one there..',
Evangelical 2: 'That page has some.. good.. images on it..',
*both heads turn to one side in unison at a particular image*
Evangelical 1: 'Yeah..',
Evangelical 2: 'Yeah, but...',
*more uncomfortable shifting*
Evangelical 2: 'Maybe there is some better examples if I click on this link..',
Evangelical 1: '..... Do it'.
And for the 'unsaved youth' who turn their nose up at the thought of that dusty, wordy old Bible, there's a hip, rad version containing 'just the facts' for them! America's public schools are after all under attack from scientists, Islamic people and everybody else who has found something out that goes against the words of the Bible. They must be stopped!
Yes, you read that correctly. Clowning 4 Christ! Available for weddings, parties, but not Bar Mitzvas. A 'clown conference' may be heading to a town near you this year, and if so you too can witness first hand their drive and commitment in 'bring[ing] the best possible instructors that will raise the level of professionalism in all areas of clowning, Christian as well as secular.', and who wouldn't want that at their 5-year olds' birthday?
Just enough for one more part, which I'll post later. If anyone has any other mad ads they have found, please share them - add or link through the comments!
One thing you have to hand to those kerayzee evangelicals - they know how to focus on the positives when advertising their religion product.
Bible Man, with his wee-coloured light sabre and a forehead designed to keep the rain off his feet, must save the world from the nasty heathens who happen to have a load of Anger Dust to spread all over the place. Not only is it implied that his arch nemesis is a Mexican, (an association of which might irk America's southern neighbours), but also a damned god-denier. (I assume this is how atheists are seen by these people, spreading hate and suffering in their silly cloak and helmet getups when not doing their day-to-day jobs).'Ordered to worship monkeys' is clearly a slant against the Evolutionists, but otherwise you might think this is referring to the Bible. It's not until the final frame that you realise its actually a film. The Jesus Film - which despite having been seen by 1.5 Billion people I had not heard of before this - dates from 1979, post-dating the far more capable 'Jesus of Nazareth' by 2 years and thus coming off as a bit of a cash-in.The ad gets extra points by implying people who showed it were committed as nutters, and also by talking down to the tribal bushmen of the world. At least the film eventually came along, otherwise who knows how many more generations of bushmen would have had to burn in hell (after the 1800 years or so where God decided not to reveal himself to them) if it hadn't.
Gotta wonder just what made them use a pair of nubile ladies kissing as the focus point for concerned parents. After all, they do seem to be enjoying themselves. Now obviously homosexuality is an unforgivable hell-burning sin for these people, but I reckon that was an interesting evening beside the computer searching for a source image..Evangelical 1: 'Just type in 'Lesbians' and see what comes up.',
Evangelical 2: '..pfft.. 'comes up'..',
*nervous shifting in seats*
Evangelical 1: 'Holy Mary, there's a lot of results. Click on that one there..',
Evangelical 2: 'That page has some.. good.. images on it..',
*both heads turn to one side in unison at a particular image*
Evangelical 1: 'Yeah..',
Evangelical 2: 'Yeah, but...',
*more uncomfortable shifting*
Evangelical 2: 'Maybe there is some better examples if I click on this link..',
Evangelical 1: '..... Do it'.
And for the 'unsaved youth' who turn their nose up at the thought of that dusty, wordy old Bible, there's a hip, rad version containing 'just the facts' for them! America's public schools are after all under attack from scientists, Islamic people and everybody else who has found something out that goes against the words of the Bible. They must be stopped!Yes, you read that correctly. Clowning 4 Christ! Available for weddings, parties, but not Bar Mitzvas. A 'clown conference' may be heading to a town near you this year, and if so you too can witness first hand their drive and commitment in 'bring[ing] the best possible instructors that will raise the level of professionalism in all areas of clowning, Christian as well as secular.', and who wouldn't want that at their 5-year olds' birthday?Just enough for one more part, which I'll post later. If anyone has any other mad ads they have found, please share them - add or link through the comments!
Mad Christian Ads (Part 1)
Whilst clearing out my old folders recently I happened upon a selection of old banner adverts. Ads are things that interest and irk me in equal measure, being invasive objects that increasingly intrude on our lives without our permission but have the power to consciously and subconsciously change the habits of millions of people around the planet to buy the product or use the service in question, often without actually saying so. Adverts are a neutered form of mind control that offer a glimpse into the general human mindset.
The ads in particular I happened to save onto my hard-drive around 2002 after finding some American evangelical Christian website (the address of which I have long forgot), and I did so because I couldn't quite believe the forwardness of what I was seeing. I promise, these are genuine banner ads from that period.
Nothing like a big red warning sign to get you all pleased you chose that page to go for your daily bit of Jesus Juice. Not too sure what the barcode is all about, perhaps you were meant to take your laptop down to the local Tesco and ask them to scan it in for further instructions.
Al, the anti-lies bear is here to tell you exactly what you can and cannot believe. It doesn't say just what voice the bear roars these biblical extracts at your three year old child in, though, but I doubt it would sound much like Barney.
Amusingly, the people who made the bear have had to change the colour of it to 'heavenly white' from its original purple, because they discovered that '..the color purple has been appropriated by the homosexual community..'. Nice to see just how scared these people are of unbiblical minorities that they can't even be associated with a primary colour if it has some 'negative' connotation. I propose that the agnostics, atheists and humanists divide up the remaining primary colours between them and adopt them as their own, leaving only beige.
'Don't let Evolutionists make a monkey out of you', says Ken Ham, who has managed to look quite a lot like a monkey. So against Evolution is our Ken that he has applied the same tactic that one Mary Kenny has done not so long ago: blame it for all the social ills in the world.
Baby Jesus! I don't talk, I don't walk, I don't do anything, so basically just a job lot of cheap sweatshop-made dolls repackaged and stuck in a crucifix t-shirt, despite Jesus not experiencing much crucifix action until much later on in his life.
The website is still active, and those of you annoyed that you can't get your Jesus doll in the right race can rest easy, there is now not one, but four Jesuses (Jesii?), each of a different skin colour and dress style, crying out for some child-deprived evangelist to love to death like a biblical episode of the Power Rangers.
And you too can buy foods from the bible. These granola bars contain exclusive ingredients not found anywhere else outside of 'shops'. It took the bible to bring them together in a healthy medley, and at only a few dollars a pack, how can you not praise Him as you run for that bus?
I have a few more which I'll post soon. In the meantime, if you have seen some equally weird and wonderful advertisements targeted at the easily flocked, please nominate them. Extra points if the ad implies damnation if you do not buy.
The ads in particular I happened to save onto my hard-drive around 2002 after finding some American evangelical Christian website (the address of which I have long forgot), and I did so because I couldn't quite believe the forwardness of what I was seeing. I promise, these are genuine banner ads from that period.
Nothing like a big red warning sign to get you all pleased you chose that page to go for your daily bit of Jesus Juice. Not too sure what the barcode is all about, perhaps you were meant to take your laptop down to the local Tesco and ask them to scan it in for further instructions.Al, the anti-lies bear is here to tell you exactly what you can and cannot believe. It doesn't say just what voice the bear roars these biblical extracts at your three year old child in, though, but I doubt it would sound much like Barney.Amusingly, the people who made the bear have had to change the colour of it to 'heavenly white' from its original purple, because they discovered that '..the color purple has been appropriated by the homosexual community..'. Nice to see just how scared these people are of unbiblical minorities that they can't even be associated with a primary colour if it has some 'negative' connotation. I propose that the agnostics, atheists and humanists divide up the remaining primary colours between them and adopt them as their own, leaving only beige.
'Don't let Evolutionists make a monkey out of you', says Ken Ham, who has managed to look quite a lot like a monkey. So against Evolution is our Ken that he has applied the same tactic that one Mary Kenny has done not so long ago: blame it for all the social ills in the world.Baby Jesus! I don't talk, I don't walk, I don't do anything, so basically just a job lot of cheap sweatshop-made dolls repackaged and stuck in a crucifix t-shirt, despite Jesus not experiencing much crucifix action until much later on in his life.The website is still active, and those of you annoyed that you can't get your Jesus doll in the right race can rest easy, there is now not one, but four Jesuses (Jesii?), each of a different skin colour and dress style, crying out for some child-deprived evangelist to love to death like a biblical episode of the Power Rangers.
And you too can buy foods from the bible. These granola bars contain exclusive ingredients not found anywhere else outside of 'shops'. It took the bible to bring them together in a healthy medley, and at only a few dollars a pack, how can you not praise Him as you run for that bus?I have a few more which I'll post soon. In the meantime, if you have seen some equally weird and wonderful advertisements targeted at the easily flocked, please nominate them. Extra points if the ad implies damnation if you do not buy.
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